Innovative Real Estate with Three Squared, Inc.
As specialists in efficient residential and commercial prefabricated design, Leslie Horn, Breck Crandell, and Jill Ramirez of Three Squared, Inc. share their greatest insights, tips, and case studies from their years of experience in the industry. They'll be giving you their best advice through, trainings, guest features, and Q&A segments so you can turn your innovative vision to a reality.
Innovative Real Estate with Three Squared, Inc.
Why Women Make Exceptional Real Estate Developers with Jill Ferrari of Renovare
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
In this episode, we sit down with Jill Ferrari, Co-Founder and Managing Partner of Renovare Development, to explore her journey in real estate development and the unique perspective women bring to the industry. From overcoming the 2007 financial crisis to building social impact equity projects, Jill shares insights on how women can thrive in a male-dominated field and make lasting change in communities.
We discuss the origin of Renovare, how it grew out of Jill’s passion for problem-solving, and how her company is reshaping the way we think about community-driven real estate. Jill also dives into the obstacles she's navigated over the years and how she's been able to stay resilient.
Additionally Jill reflects on the crucial role women play in evaluating the "quality and value of place"—a perspective that Jill believes makes women great real estate developers.
Here's a glimpse of what you'll learn:
- Jill Ferrari's story and why she started Renovare
- Why do women make great real estate developers
- Advice for breaking into the industry
- Why we need to invest in social impact projects
Supplementary links to today's episode:
Renovare Links: Website, Instagram, LinkedIn
Women's Sustainable Development Initiative
Ready to move forward with your project? Contact us here and we will put you in contact with the right member of our team.
Make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new project releases, trainings, and more.
Welcome to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast with your hosts Leslie Horn, Brett Crandall, and Claire Olilla. We're here to make your life easier as a real estate developer and teach you everything we've learned about designing and building innovative homes, multifamily, and mixed use structures. On this podcast, we'll be giving you our best advice, trainings, and QA segments so you can learn from our years of experience and make your innovative vision a reality.
SPEAKER_01Welcome, welcome back to another installation of Innovative Real Estate with your host, 3Squared Inc. Now, if you've been following along with our firm and our journey for the last couple of years, then you clearly know that we are proud to be a women-owned and operated company. Miss Leslie Horn here has been leading the pack since long before I joined the team. And I can assure you, on today's call, this is no exception. There's very little testosterone today. I'm alone here by myself. That's because uh Leslie and Jill recently attended a um a women's conference that really connected a ton of industry professionals and uh rekindled a friendship that Leslie's had for many years. So I won't steal this introduction from you, Leslie, because you know Jill better than any of us. And not to be confusing, we do have two Jills on the call today. So we'll we'll make sure that we clarify that. But Leslie, if you would take it away and let us know who our host is and who is joining us today.
SPEAKER_02Oh, this is amazing. Uh Breck, thank you so much. And this was an exciting morning for us to be here. And regardless of gender here, what I want to know, what I want to share is that uh our guest today, Jill Ferrari, she has been in the like real estate development world for nearly 30 years. And she brings a lot of excitement, a lot of knowledge, a lot of experience, and she also brings a lot of nurturing. I don't know how else to say that any differently. You know, she's been a member of ULI, which is how I had the pleasure of meeting Jill, boy, five, six years ago. And the moment I met Jill is I thought, wow, this is such a strong and really smart woman. And really gathering the woman's collective, so to speak, into a place in the city of Detroit, which is where this, where ULI the chapter is, uh, and really just championing women to be their best and to really encourage women to say, hey, you can actually do this. And I have so many questions for you this morning, Jill. Uh, but I do want to just say that it's it's been it's been an honor to follow your your path. Um and I don't even remember when you started Renovar, but I can't believe how how successful and how quick you brought it up from, hey, I'm starting this brand new woman-owned real estate development company. And then now you're you have over a hundred million dollars in projects. And you just said this morning you're at the closing table. I can't wait to hear that number. But nonetheless, I'm super, super, super excited that you were here. Jill um Ramirez went with me to this women's event uh just for a little context about two months ago. And all I recall is that when Jill and I left, we just looked at each other and we're like, wow, what a powerful group of women real estate developers. And can't wait to be a part of this. And what a privilege to have been a witness to their very first um inauguration of of this group meeting. And um, I don't know, it's you're on to something, Joe Ferrari. That's all I can say. And we're really um thrilled and honored that you're here. Thank you.
SPEAKER_00I need to do this at least once a month. Is that okay?
SPEAKER_02I think you can be a regular here on this podcast, friend. So um, you know, tell us a little bit more about just like like real briefly, what got you started in real estate? Because I I I was actually surprised to look at the notes and I didn't realize it had been almost 30 years, sis. I mean, my goodness. Um, and I know you've tackled different bits and pieces, but what got you into it? And I think I want you to end on what got what what inspired you to start your own. I mean, you dove into the deep end of the pool of real estate development. So, so what inspired you to do that?
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, there's a lot in there. Um, as you said, and first, thank you so much for inviting me. I feel the exact same about you watching you innovate in this space and providing products that others aren't and moving into areas that others aren't. I know I've always known that we are kindred spirits when it comes to designing spaces and creating places. So I'm so excited to be here. Um, so thank you. Um, and it's so nice to meet you, Breck. Um, my background, I'm a licensed attorney. I've either practiced law or consulted on real estate for almost 30 years, as you said. Um, I became a limited partner on my first project, an owner, in 2007. And it was a really large project in Las Vegas. Um, but you know, you can imagine when I mentioned the year 2007, that it was not a great time. Um yeah, never broke ground. Um, but um really learned a lot about what I wanted to do through that experience. Um, I wanted to do more uh community development work, more neighborhood level work, more meaningful work. Um, so during and after the crash, I worked in community development and government and nonprofit leadership and returned to private real estate in 2017 to work on um affordable housing and community, uh community development work. And um shortly after 2019 is when we founded Renovari and I'll tell you that story. But you asked how, you know, how I got started in the whole real estate world. I think for women that are our age, it's real estate isn't a direct path, you know, there weren't a lot of bachelor's degrees in real estate. Um, it wasn't something that you went into, you know, a lot of real estate agents made that path in development, but for a lot of us, it was through a different course. And um, when I was young, uh my dad died from uh exposure to chemicals in the workplace. And so I started focusing on brownfield redevelopment and cleaning up contaminated sites in college and shortly thereafter, and that just led me to brownfield redevelopment and a whole career in that space. So it was really a personal experience that drove that. Um, so um I just have always had this commitment to really trying to return sites to active use. And it was really uh through Renovari development that we've um really focused that work on creating social impact and transformational projects. So it's been it's been a long journey.
SPEAKER_02Wow, fascinating. It's fascinating. Um right now I know you have very specific. Um, so as a developer, tell us a little bit about like, and I think this is what's gonna be very exciting for to inspire other women. We have several clients who call us who don't have the experience, who don't know what to do. They might own the land, they might not, they might need funding, they might have a little bit. But um in in approaching a project and and your work with new developers, um, and tell us a little bit about the process, because I know it's all based on your experience and and the level of approach to a project is being you know kind of circled down into this organization uh for women developers. And tell us a little bit about that platform and what like like how you inspire women. Like that there's when you approach a project, I know there's so many questions I just asked in that one sentence, but let's start there. When how do you approach a project? And then as you as you want to share for other women developers, and by the way, we're gonna ask you to share at the end, we're gonna have in our show notes all of the information on how we can reach out to you, how our listeners can reach out to you, how they can get involved with any of the programs that that you are involved with. So I want you to hear that and that everybody will have a path in order to get to get learning. So um let's go ahead and start a little bit. Let's uh how do you approach a project, I guess, in the real estate development world?
SPEAKER_00All right. And I think this takes us back to how Renovare got started. Um uh in 2019, uh, was working in the affordable housing space, um, but I had a colleague who was a longtime friend who really had a similar vision that I did um to complete housing projects in areas where other developers weren't focused, such as rural areas and urban areas outside of Detroit. Um, we wanted to really um go where there was a great need for developers like us who were committed to social impact and sustainability. So we founded Renafari Development and and we had one pitch and uh we were offered a million dollars to launch our company. We weren't expecting it at all. Um, and then at the closing table, that investor added some requirements that you know it kept us from closing. And we had to shift really quickly. We pulled in different equity, and it has been five years since then of bootstrapping and uh, you know, just fighting tooth and nail to get uh investment in the door and get the projects under contract. But um, I don't think that we could be prouder of the work that we have in the pipeline. Um we have right now we have 16 million under construction. We're closing on 35 million more before year end, and then another 60 million next year. Um, we have 213 affordable single-family homes in the pipeline and three mixed-use multifamily buildings across the state. Um, every one of these has been designed through a careful partnership with um the local community, local employers, local nonprofits to really drive a local need. And that's, I think, where how we approach commercial real estate is as problem solvers. We are not um focused on the bottom line. We have parameters that we need to meet as a private company, but we are really here to solve the needs that exist in communities because our parents, uh both Shannon Morgan, who is my partner and myself, are the children of blue-collar workers. And so we see so much need in Michigan's workforce for affordable housing and access to amenities. So that's how we've approached real estate. And in um 2022, um, myself and four other executive women executives in commercial real estate saw the need for more projects like this, more approach like this to commercial real estate, and saw a lot of women out there who were longtime professionals in real estate. They were architects, construction professionals, engineers who wanted to launch their own projects, wanted to drive their own projects. And so we came together and formed the Women's Sustainable Development Initiative, which hosted the event that Leslie and Jill were at last month. And uh our mission through WSTI is to support uh women, uh commercial real estate developers who are emerging that are focused on projects in low-income communities that have environmental, social, and government governance components. So we want to see complete projects, thoughtful projects, um, and we want to see them in areas of need. And right now we have a community over of over 100 women that are a part of our uh women development community. And we have a partnership with Sunare that is a structured cohort, year-long cohort that leads women to uh pre-development funding for their projects through SNER. So it's been uh a really wonderful journey to be a part of a community that is all really focused on the why, why we're building, who we're building for. Um, it's been an awesome journey. And uh a lot of these women are really picking projects because of what they've seen in their own neighborhoods, their own communities or needs in their own community of influence. Um, so it's just a really refreshing approach to commercial real estate, and I'm glad to be a part of it. Amazing. Amazing.
SPEAKER_04So I'm gonna chime in here because I'm really antsy to ask a question. I think it's so interesting that you touched on 2007 and 2019 because we know the housing market crash happened, 2009, 2010, and then we know COVID hit 2021. So those dates, you were doing some really big things. And so I'm interested to hear about how you navigated the challenges of those really difficult times. And despite all things, you were like able to take off um with Renovari and and then WSTI. I know that you touched on this at the event, but can you talk a little bit about how you navigated COVID specifically, but then also just generally what it was like navigating those challenges and how you use them to your benefit?
SPEAKER_00Yes, um, that's an excellent question. In, you know, right before the crash in 2007, the first crash, right? We have to be specific these days, so many crashes. 2007, the deal in Las Vegas that I was leading, that I was an owner of, was the largest deal in the country financially. We had a term sheet for 10 million an acre on a uh 90-acre property in Las Vegas. It was actually the stretch of land between the stratosphere and downtown, large assembly. We had received approval to locate the NBA arena on the site. I was flying back and forth to New York to meet with the NBA. Adam Silver was the deputy back then. And it was a really exciting time. Um, and uh we had all this financing lined up. I was picking out uh Ferraris at the dealership at the win. I'll never forget it. Um and then we got the phone call from UBS that the commercial uh lending floor had had been wiped out and flew to New York, and there were people walking out of buildings with boxes, there were papers all over the floor. It was, it was insane. And um it really forced me to figure out what was important at that time. Um, I left Las Vegas, came back, I took a huge pay cut and went to Wayne County community development because I really learned in that process that development had to be for me, it had to be about more than the bottom line. That development was very bottom line driven. It's commercial real estate, it's Las Vegas, and no judgment against that. You know, there's a lot of developers out there that are really um, you know, driven by the bottom line, but it wasn't for me. So came home, took a huge pay cut, and that's a risk. You know, I think I'm an entrepreneur, I'm I'm a risk taker. Uh, I'm on my fourth company that I owned or launched, um, and uh navigated that and was able to really gain a lot of experience in the federal funding space through that position that has made me a better developer. So I spent five years at Wayne County in community development, understanding HUD resources, understanding blight elimination, tax processes, understanding how taxes play a role in development is really key and um has really built who I am today. Um, and in COVID, we came together as five women uh when we launched the nonprofit. We actually came together to support younger women in the industry. We launched a um clubhouse call, which was you know an audio uh platform that was really popular during COVID. You guys all know because nobody wanted to see anybody at that point. We're all in sweats. So it was an audio platform and we it's still around. Um, we got on a call, started a call to really touch base with some of our mentees, some of the younger women in the industry to make sure they were okay, make sure that they remained connected. And as part of that process, there were just five of us that really stayed connected. We met every week. Um and so to Leslie's point earlier, that that whole nonprofit was born out of a place of nurture. It was born out of a place of women in the industry reaching out to younger women in the interest industry and making sure that they were taken care of, that somebody was looking out for them and uh resulted in this nonprofit that is um, I mean, literally one of the best things I've done in my career.
SPEAKER_02So well, it's interesting because you say younger women, but I'm I'm gonna challenge that because the group of women that we saw at the event, oh my gosh, it was it was so diverse. Yeah. In in in every realm, it was beautiful. And a few men were in there as well, but they were not just all younger women. I'm telling you, Jill, that was um, it was a pretty amazing and a diverse group.
SPEAKER_00And that's been one of the best surprises of WSDI. When we launched the Clubhouse group, we were really focused on some of the younger professionals that we had been mentoring, you know, in their 30s, things like that. Um, but the developers that we're seeing come through this program, they're established. These are women with 20 years in the industry, licensed contractors, attorneys, you know, all kinds of different backgrounds, but there's women of every age in this group. Um we are predominantly women of color, which is a huge source of pride for all of us that we have been able to put um a group together that um reflects the community of Southeast Michigan. Um, but yeah, there's um there's women that are younger than me, women that are older than me, but everybody is there for the right reason. It's to create places that matter and that serve their own communities, which is great.
SPEAKER_01Wow, what a story and a varied uh experience you've had in this in this real estate market. Uh so I'd like to talk a little bit more about like you you pointed out some of the the hardships, like understanding taxes has such implications on the industry. What are some of the things? And I don't I don't want to set you up on just like a soapbox to scream about everything, but what are some of the challenges that this industry has has positioned that you actually see there's there's room for change within? Like, what are some of those those big talking points that you think could shift and help everyone out who's trying to get into a position such as your own?
SPEAKER_00That is an excellent question. I think social impact equity into firms like the ones that we're nurturing through WSDI is uh is a rare resource. We need to build the market for social impact equity. So for people to invest in developers themselves, right? If you go out into the real estate when Leslie knows this, Wellsley Jill knows this. If you go out seeking equity, everybody wants to invest in projects, but nobody wants to invest into the operating entity. And as you're launching, you need that working capital to function. I mean, it's a long lead time between identifying a project and closing, as you know. So, all right, um can be really long for social impact projects. So I think social impact investment at the enterprise level is something that we really need to see more um more public backing in. Um, I think employers are another great resource for that kind of investment because we're the groups who are going to do housing that serve their employee base and help them grow, right? Um, I also see a lot of sources coming down, but they're um so restricted on eligible uses. And it's really difficult to stack deals in places where there aren't a lot of resources when your funding is super restricted. It's either only fund this or it can only fund that, and trying to, it's like putting a puzzle together. And um, the more fluidity, the more flexibility we have in funding sources, um, the easier it is to get projects done that get done quicker. I mean, half the reason that it takes so long sometimes is because of that difficulty in the stack. And um, so more flexibility. I also think um, and we've seen some response to this, mitigating risk for the private market to release some of their rigidity is really a place where we need to focus. And in the upper peninsula, where we have three projects right now. We are seeing some investment in um in mitigating that private risk. So InvestUP has launched a capital program where they're willing to put up cash collateral for a private bank to invest in housing projects, which is exactly what we need. We need the private markets to be more attracted to some of these social impact projects in order for um for everything to work. And they won't do that until their risk is mitigated. So we need more programs like that. And I think those are some of the key areas where we're going to see some growth. And I'm really excited about seeing projects like EBR, uh efforts like EBR, which is an investment fund in Detroit that focuses on social impact investment at the enterprise level for investors or for emerging developers. We just need to see it statewide.
SPEAKER_01So I'll add a layer to that conversation too, just while we're on the topic, because yeah, I love that you're bringing up like social impact projects, because obviously, like we're architects, we know that there's a desperate, dire need for additional housing. Um we're not even anywhere close to solving this. Is one of the biggest issues that we see as we support developers who are going to this is that the funding sources don't understand the process of going through site surveys and then coming up with your conceptual designs and then your construction documents. You know, I can't count how many times on these social impact projects were asked to jump through absurd hoops so early on in the process. Like we need full construction documents and every detail of how it's going to come together. And you're like, but they need the money to pay for those documents, and we have to work hundreds of hours on this in order to provide those for you. So it's just a miscommunication and an understanding of the essential process that goes into these projects as they're being developed.
SPEAKER_00It's so true. And this is actually Shannon Morgan, who's my partner. This is one of her key points. We are constantly asked to be at or beyond site plan approval or even engineering approval before we're eligible for certain funding sources. And to your point, how are we supposed to get there? It's it's you can't, you know, and access to pre-development is really difficult. You know, you can't secure the property. You have an option, you don't have titles. So you can't, you know, it's really, it's really challenging. And um, I hope Shannon gets to see this someday because she is definitely a proponent of what you just said of changing access to these funds and the requirements for these funds because it's just backwards.
SPEAKER_02It's so interesting. And man, I think it would be really awesome for you and both both you and Shannon to attend one of our podcasts. I'd love to see that energy into kind of the playback uh back and forth. I think it would, I think we could, I think women and men developers can actually learn a lot from this. Tell us um a little bit about I guess you're also working in other what how do you choose which area of the states that you've been working in? Because that's really an important piece. And then what's your first step?
SPEAKER_00Right. So when we launched, we wanted to um respond to um requests for you know municipalities or employers or partners that were reaching out for us to help solve a problem. Um, that's how we went up to the upper peninsula. We were contacted by the former mayor. Um, it's how we got to Benton Harbor. We were contacted by Harbor Habitat. Um, and it's how we got to Ypsilanti. We were contacted by the city um with a site in mind. And it was we developed a checklist. We wanted to see certain things in place. We wanted to have a strong local champion, community champion. We wanted to have access to certain resources in order to get started. And we wanted to see employers in the area who had active desire to grow or weren't in a position to grow, but housing was one of the key factors that was keeping them from growth. And all the areas that we're working in met all of those checkboxes. Um, and so at this point, five years later, with our pipeline, we're really starting to target our work in those locations that Lower West Michigan, Washington County, who's been an incredible partner, and then up in the upper peninsula in central UP. Um, and our plan is to really build our projects around those places so that we can build our, you know, our infrastructure. But it was really just this checklist of all right, we want to see all these pieces before we're gonna proceed. And we have them in various degrees in all those projects. And pulling together a community of support is critical. And we didn't want to go to any place where we thought that would be difficult. And so far, um, it it's been amazing in all those locations. I think because of the, you know, the history of disinvestment, the the lack of private activity in a lot of those places has really driven um, you know, some social impact measures. So um could not be happier with where we're where we're at right now geographically.
SPEAKER_02Do any of those um areas specifically up in the UP area, do they um qualify for USDA support?
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, so uh all three areas in the UP that we're working in. Well, we have two projects in Munising. So all two areas, all three projects, qualify for USDA financing. Um and uh right now, those are the only ones that we have that are rural, the three up in the in the UP. Um we have project in Grand Rapids. Um Benton Harbor is non-MSA, but it's also not rural. It's not, it's kind of in this, you know, odd place. And then everything we have in Southeast Michigan doesn't qualify.
SPEAKER_02But right. Um, how are you making the numbers work with today's pricing of materials and labor?
SPEAKER_00So we are reliant on a lot of public subsidy. Um, our projects utilize the Brownfield TIFF program or housing TIFF program in almost every single project. Um we're uh financing all of those costs uh on the front end through various CDFIs, um, community development financial institution, sorry about the acronyms. Um we have direct ARPA allocations in some of the projects um through local partners. Um in Benton Harbor, we have a direct investment in the project by Whirlpool Corporation. So, you know, as we stack these deals, we're really looking for um access to tax increment financing on the back end, a direct investment of some sort, whether it be home funds uh through a local entitlement community, which are HUD funds not available across the state or you know, in every place, um, or through ARPA funds or through some other mechanism. And we try to layer MISHTA financing, but it is our capital stacks are 10 lines deep. It's it's crazy. Um, but these are to you know, to Breck's uh point, these are areas that desperately need housing. I mean, everywhere, everybody needs housing, but these are areas that um are willing to pull everything together to get this done, and um, that's what makes it possible.
SPEAKER_02Amazing.
SPEAKER_04Well, I know it's you're in a unique circumstance where it's like you started at a certain point and now look at where you are today. I think that here at Three Squared, we talk with a lot of new developers, and we know that development in the real estate industry is not for the faint of art. It's you need to have a very strong backing, and so it's very intimidating to start somewhere. So I was wondering if you could talk to us a little bit more about how to break into this industry because it's so difficult, and not only are you in this industry as a female entrepreneur, but you're also you're a very good steward for the community, focusing on these equitable developments in the community. So I know there's a lot of layers in there, but what would be your best advice for people just trying to get into the industry as new developers?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think this is a really good question. Um, we see a lot of women coming in that have smaller projects. They are buying uh a duplex or a quadplex, something like that. And they want to rehab and rent. Um, and those kind of projects, you really can bootstrap that. You know, you can friends and family, you could, you know, we did some crowdfunding early on, you know, things like that at the operational level. Um but if you are looking at larger projects like ours that are 10 million and above, I think the question around equity and balance sheet partners, it has to be something you ask early on because bootstrapping larger projects like that, it will take you years and years and years if you don't set your company up appropriately. If you're really going after those bigger projects, do your due diligence and find a balance sheet partner, which I think are becoming more and more accessible. More larger companies are understanding to Brexit point. The impact of the lack of housing on our industry, our country right now is palpable. Like, you know, we're all feeling the effect of not having housing for workforce. Um, so I do think that we're gonna see more companies act as balance sheet partners, be open to that so that um smaller companies can get some of this work done. Um, because that's these are not projects that you can step into and expect to get done even in two years. So, unless you have a balance sheet partner like that. So, Joe, I think it's really about what kind of work do you want to do? If you want to do the onesie twosies, you want to do the smaller duplexes, things like that. I think that's something you can do. Um, but if you want to do the bigger projects, you have to set your company up for success. And that's gonna probably mean giving up some of your ownership, bringing in folks that can guarantee um and understanding the requirements of financing. A lot of folks don't really understand what kind of liquidity and balance sheet requirements um a lot of these funding sources have. So um going through a project a program like We Build, where we kind of walk you through all those things, I highly recommend, or the Capital Impact program or Building Community Values, all of these programs really contain a lot of education on what it takes to finance these D deals, who's gonna ask for personal guarantees, all the things that you really need to know before you start figuring out what path you're gonna take.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. What does your relationship look like to the architects and designers on your projects? Like, is that a direct line of communication? Um, and do you find yourself building relationships with them so that you're reutilizing the same team over and over again because they've kind of you know met the numbers and know what they're in for? Or do you find that every time you start a new project, you're really looking for boots on the ground and restarting that process over?
SPEAKER_00So um we started out with um the architect and planning firm that my partner Shannon used um when she did the Grandview Marquette. The Grandview Marquette is a 60-unit orphanage in Marquette, Michigan that she rehabilitated in her previous company. Highly successful YTEC deal. It won the governor's award. And she used a local firm called Barry Pulsan and Associates. And so when we launched, we reached out to Barry. Barry was gracious enough to carry us in some of our first projects um to get to closing. And as Jill mentioned, we hit COVID. So we launched in 2019, COVID hit, and we didn't close on Ypsilani until 2023. Like it really slowed us down. Um, and luckily we had pre-development financing so that we could pay Barry, but that big payday at the you know, at the closing of the project, um, it was delayed. And he was really great about it, very supportive and acted as a development partner. And so now, you know, we use him on most of our deals because it's a loyalty thing. He was there for us in the beginning, and um, we're really happy with the design that we've built together. And that that's another thing. We like to um duplicate our floor plans, Breck, because we're doing on the single family, we're doing a lot of the same types of units. We're doing cottages that are two-story, two and a half, uh, two beds, two and a half bed, or one and a half bath, and then um duplexes and towns. So we're really re-replacing or duplicating this floor plan and adding different elevations depending on the location and um things like that. So um we we we're kind of based on loyalty and driven by just knowing how responsive that team is gonna be. So it's all um really just a level of comfort and knowledge. And um, working with good or new folks is a little intimidating for us because we want to make sure that we know um how our team's gonna work together.
SPEAKER_02So um, not that we wouldn't be open to it, but um, you know, Jill, that you you make a really good point, Jill, because that's I mean, when we talk to somebody, we, you know, we a new developer, we say, Hey, the first time you work with us will probably be the most hours, the most expensive. But as we get to know you, you get to know us, it becomes more of team effort and just we we read your mind, you're building your brand, we're supporting you in your brand building, and we know what you want. And so it's that type of, and so I'm so grateful that you found that partner. I think that's amazing. And those are the types of relationships we want to build as an architectural firm. And I think it's so important um that the developer understands the importance um of the role of the architect, because we don't often see that. People think they can take the design and then it's theirs, that one design is theirs for all the next 300 houses they're going to build. And it unfortunately it just doesn't, it doesn't work like that um for no reasons.
SPEAKER_00Well, but also Leslie, I think, you know, even though you know we've definitely worked with Barry on the design of the units, kind of replicating those units, the role of the civil and the planner and the GC for us, we use different folks depending on the location because civil is so important. Um, and I know you guys manage a lot of civil work. Um, people underestimate the value of civil engineering, um, especially for housing projects. So um it I think it really um we start with a product, but then our team is really location based um for the rest of it. Our GCs are location based. We have different GCs in Grand Rapids than we do up north. Um, and our civils are also location-based because they're gonna understand the municipalities.
SPEAKER_02It's so important. I think that those are two really major keys in development is really finding that right team. So thank you. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Well, we certainly know that this conversation could go on for hours and hours. We're definitely getting a master class today. I know that I got my free tuition in this lesson. It's been incredible. And we can't wait until the next time that you could join us. Um, today's guest has been Jill Ferrari talking to us about development and real estate experience from all aspects. Uh, it has been has been a very impactful conversation, and uh, we definitely have some moments we're gonna pull out of this and and share with you in the show notes. Uh, Jill, as we wind the conversation to a close, how can people get a hold of you? Um, what what information would you like them to know and have access to if they're looking for more of your your background or your experience or or can get a master class for themselves? Um, where can we find you?
SPEAKER_00Our website is www.renovare development.com, r-e-n-ovar e development.com. And um there is a contact link and we answer that. We try our best to answer those as quickly as possible. They do come to us, so we do see them. Um and uh uh we're pretty active on social media too, through LinkedIn um and Facebook. So if you want a message there, that's also a direct place to get a hold of us. Um we're uh we're as reactive as we can while we're trying to close deals and get things done.
SPEAKER_02And Jill, are there any parting words that you want to leave us with before we wrap this up?
SPEAKER_00So um, and I I know you know there's no testosterone or not, not as much testosterone today, but I just want to say I think um, you know, that one of the reasons that I'm so supportive of women developers is because I believe that we're uniquely qualified as women to evaluate the quality and value of place in a community. As parents, caregivers, service workers, exact or executives and more, we're responsible for the cohesiveness of our own families and we bring that perspective to commercial real estate. We know what make fam what makes families stronger, and we want to see those amenities and services at a neighborhood level because we know that quick access to affordable fresh food and child care for a single mom. Um, I'm the product of a single mom. Um, that can make or break a family. Um, how far they have to drive, how hard they have to work for basic things, um, or how hard they have to work there to pay their mortgage can really impact the strength of a family. So um we're really supportive of putting women in the place of driving design because just have that perspective. Beautiful.
SPEAKER_01Well said. What a closing statement. Well, thanks again for sticking around. Uh thank you, Joel Ferrari. Super cool name, by the way, for joining us today and for giving us uh so much of your wisdom. We will see you next time. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for having me. Thank you. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you found it so valuable you want to connect with us one-on-one, click the link in the description to tell us all about your project so we can help you get started. And to get notified on the next episode here on Innovative Real Estate, go ahead and subscribe to the podcast on iTunes so you never miss a beep. Get out there, put today's advice into action, and we will see you in the next episode.