Designing Inclusive Spaces Everyone Can Enjoy with Jill Ramirez

Why do we have to leave our homes in order to enjoy beautiful spaces? 

In this episode we sit down with TSI's Project Manager Jill Ramirez, to talk about why design inclusivity is important and how having access to beautiful spaces affects a society.  We also talk about why cost is such a big holdup for creating inclusive spaces and why the industry is seeing a growing demand for flex spaces.

Here's what you'll learn in today's episode: 

• What is inclusive design and why it is important. 
• The importance of having a space you enjoy and feel comfortable in. 
• Flex spaces and their uses. 
• How costs limit design versatility.
• Project Highlight of the Week: The Hygge

Learn more about the Frederiksbjerg School here.

Full show notes for Episode 56. 

Ready to move forward with your project? Contact us here and we will put you in contact with the right member of our team.

Make sure to follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn to stay up to date on new project releases, trainings, and more. 

Transcript

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SPEAKER_02 0:02

Welcome to the Innovative Real Estate Podcast with your hosts Leslie Horn, Brett Crandall, and Claire Olilla. We're here to make your life easier as a real estate developer and teach you everything we've learned about designing and building innovative homes, multifamily, and mixed use structures. On this podcast, we'll be giving you our best advice, trainings, and QA segments so you can learn from our years of experience and make your innovative vision a reality. You know it's gonna be a good episode when we've got this much girl power in the room. I'm Claire, I'm our director of sales and marketing here at Three Squared. We've also got Leslie, our CEO, on the line as usual. And in lieu of Breck, who is our director of design, we have Jill Ramirez here with us today, our amazing project manager who I hype up on almost every single phone call I take on a daily basis. And um, a couple of weeks ago, we internally, and amongst our three-square team, we like to do these fun things where we have a team member come on one of our operations calls and share about something that they're really passionate about. And Jill came on one of these calls and she gave this incredible presentation around designing spaces that everyone can enjoy and what that means when it comes to inclusive design and architecture and the difficulties and overcoming some of these challenges. And so by the end of this presentation, we were like, we have to invite her on the podcast to share about this with all of our listeners. And so we're so excited to have her on here today. I know Leslie wants to give a really awesome intro for Jill.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

So yeah, this has been an amazing um couple of years since Jill joined the team. And I'll share with you when I was first introduced to Jill, got to see her resume, got to see her portfolio. But what I was so impressed about, aside from the massive portfolio and the very impressive uh resume of her schooling and education, was actually her personal little touches that she added to it. So, you know, to meet Jill is is first and foremost, you just want to hug her to, you know, just hug her to death, like, oh my gosh, she's just an incredible human being. And she sets it all up with how she presents herself. She's married, beautiful husband named Joey, incredible, incredible human being. But in the documentation that she had sent over that I got to review, Breck is like, I've I've known Jill, she'd be a fantastic fit with the company. I mean, he just kept hyping her up. And I thought, well, okay, let's take a look at all of her information. Well, then it comes to this personal information part. And she talks about how her husband had this dog, um, true is his name. And, you know, just the three of them super happy, and then come to find out, she's like, Joey, I want a cat. And Joey's like, well, okay, she goes, but if we get a cat, I have one condition the cat's name has to be false. And I thought to myself, who does that? What a clever, clever, clever, clever, such a creative soul. And and Joey and Jill owned, true and false. And I thought, my gosh, this is so hysterical. So they've been a great part of the team. Um, and I think as we've as I've grown to know Jill more, and I say this on a lot of our calls with, you know, talking to people about what to expect from our team, our director of design and our director of projects, Jill Ramirez. Um, I I always tell them, you know, look at if you go to the website, you're gonna see Jill Ramirez. She looks all super sweet and super innocent, really. Um, but I what I can share with you, she is she is not super sweet and super um, well, you are super sweet, but you know what I mean. When you get the job done, you are you like you are on task, you don't let BS get in the way. You, you, you're like this could not have been a better position for three squared to have the right person in the right seat, Jill Ramirez. I think you've just not I I think I believe, I know this is where we're at a place where the company is at because of you and because of your strengths, um, and because of your organization, and mostly because of your communication skill set. So happy, so thrilled that you're a part of this team and part of this family. And yay, we get to do a podcast together, all three chicks. Yay! This is amazing. Three strong women. And I think it's really um it's a it's very telling, not just how we are able to communicate and collaborate and cooperate together, but also when you know, when we're all together, we have a we have a genuine great time. Um, period, just period. Thank you, and welcome. Welcome to the podcast, Jill. Again.

SPEAKER_03 5:22

Thank you guys for having me. And thank you so much for such a nice introduction. You guys are setting me up for such a solid Friday today. And I couldn't do what I do without the support of this team. I think you guys have truly helped me grow into the role that I'm in today. And I'm I'm so thankful to have like found my path in the industry. And I'm I'm lucky to be part of this team. So thank you guys.

SPEAKER_02 5:44

For sure. And Jill, how excited are you to give the project highlight of the week this week?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah, I'm super excited because it goes hand in hand with what we're talking about today. We're bringing back a project we haven't spoken about in a while. It's probably one of our most well-known projects, the Box Hub Hooga. It's a short-term rental located in Hawking Hills. Well, near Hawking Hills. It's Rock Bridge, but everyone knows Hawking Hills. So it's five beds, two bath. Um, you can sleep 12 adults there. Bracky's been there with his whole family. It's a fantastic place. It's got a sauna and a hot tub. If that's not enough, just the breathtaking location that it's in. Um, it's it's a beautiful project, and we love working with Seth and Emily. So we're super excited to have been able to collaborate on this project and have learned all the lessons of going through state permitting with Ohio, but we got it done and she's a beauty.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Awesome. And Jill, you mentioned that this project highlight of the week is really relevant to our topic today. So, with our topic around inclusive design, designing spaces everyone can enjoy. I'd love if you could just kick things off by sharing what is inclusive design? Why is it important to think about or why should people care about inclusive design? And maybe what are some elements of the box hop hoog that you feel are really good fit for that?

SPEAKER_03 7:09

Absolutely. So inclusive design, I was actually looking up like what is the actual definition? Because a lot of people think inclusive design goes straight to ADA, the Accessibilities Act. Um so it's not only ADA, it's also like accommodating elderly and young children, like every piece of the population that you can think of, any race, anyone is able to enjoy this space. And that was part of my project presentation that led to this podcast episode is I don't think there's enough architecture out there that accommodates that, especially in the United States. Um, so flexible spaces that adapt for changing needs of the times. Um, that's that's a really general definition of inclusive design. But what it means to me is just creating spaces that people can actually enjoy being at instead of just like walking through life being like, oh, look at all the ugly architecture out there. Um, so it's my goal, and and I think our team's goal as well to just try and like do our best to be good stewards to the built environment because buildings have such a long lifetime that what you put out there needs to be beautiful and accessible to everyone. Um, going back to your second part of that question about how the Hugo relates to all of this, the first floor is ADA compliant. Um, so like anyone with a wheelchair, there's there's a ramp up to the house, the the bathroom has a zero threshold to get into the shower. So everything is very accessible. And so someone who might have ADA needs, I think a short-term rental in particular is probably hard to come by because they have such specific requirements to be able to get through it and actually enjoy a space without, you know, a ton of assistance from other people.

SPEAKER_02 9:01

Mm-hmm. And I can imagine that I mean, you have to use an entirely different brain when taking these things into consideration. I mean, what are some of the challenges of incorporating this level of inclusivity and design and making these spaces like enjoyable rather than just meeting code, you know?

SPEAKER_03 9:23

That's a great question. I think first and foremost, cost. That's number one. I think it limits people because it tends to be thought of as like an add-on rather than like a requirement for a building. And I think that we need to continue to try and push that narrative and rewrite it as we have been doing. Um, but another thing is also the space. A lot of people come to us with space requirements. An ADA bathroom does have larger requirements than a standard bathroom. So a lot of times it's actually fitting in uh wheelchair accessibility, fitting in the space for a ramp over stairs. It takes up a lot more space to do that. So I think number one costs, number two, score footage. Um and number three is just considering that general population. I think a lot of people don't tend to think about it. And I know that Breck reminds us he did this exercise while at Lawrence Tech, they were made to go around the campus in a wheelchair. And he was like, I I was completely unaware of how difficult the world is to access just doing that small exercise.

SPEAKER_01 10:27

That's amazing. When I I can imagine that exercise, and I I wish I had video of Breck in a wheelchair driving around, riding around in Lawrence Tech. Um but I I I think we all should be doing, I think everybody as a human exercise, I think that's it would be a fantastic exercise for all humans in order for us just to relate on that level. Jill, when you talk about cost, is it because of the tell me why the cost is higher, just like in a couple of little bullet points that I'm I'm not really thinking about.

SPEAKER_03 10:59

Well, I think like overall, if you need more space to create ADA compliant spaces, uh increased space results in an increased price, you know. So instead of like a smaller square footage space, you're increasing your price range there. Um there it's just like meeting code requirements as well. It's the additional time that you have to go in and carve spaces out to make sure that you're meeting code. Um, that tends to just be like an additional component that sometimes is an afterthought, but you ultimately you're not going to get it built unless if you meet code. I would know that better than anyone because I'm in charge of all of this code research. So I don't know if I fully encompassed all of all of the items that would add to the cost of making a space more inclusive. But um something that's I I did start touching on a lot of people think inclusive design is just for ADA compliance. I also want to go back to inclusive design is much more than that. It's about the longevity of a building. So cost conversations are using higher quality materials that are gonna last longer and be better for the built environment over a longer period of time. A lot of people don't have those funds up front to be able to just dedicate, like, oh, I know this material is gonna last longer, it's a better quality, it looks nicer, but I just don't have that in my budget. So it's value engineered out so that you can get your building built.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

Yeah, it's a such a dichotomy, it's such a conundrum to be in, to want to have that inclusivity and then finding the budget in order to take it. And that might be something we want to explore with with grants and things of that sort. I mean, that's not our role as an architectural firm. However, clients can certainly, depending on the type of project it is, I would assume. So, Jill, when you talk about all the inclusivity, you know, children, elderly, all the ADA compliance that are necessary, components that are necessary to be compliant or to be inclusive, what what are the huge benefits that you see from that?

SPEAKER_03 13:05

I think spaces that people actually enjoy being in and where they can be their best. So I was actually, I was looking at uh Breck knows this, I love precedent studies. Um, there's this school, I'm probably gonna butcher the name, it's the Fredericksburg School in Denmark. And it's this school that's not like any other school I've seen. There's actually like a four-level space instead of you know how we talk about like double or triple height space. It's a four-level space of just like open air space. There's a climbing wall for kids, there's swings inside the building, and it's just like what better environment to learn and play and interact with your fellow classmates than in a school that encourages that kind of behavior. Um, there's studies about how more light in a building is better for a learning environment. All of those kinds of things, they start to affect like how you inhabit a space and what you get out of that space instead of just like going back to my thesis and my initial presentation that got us here. I did my thesis on big boxes, and we're not really doing any big box projects here, but I was thinking like, how often do people end up in a big box store and it's just like a miserable experience? So, how can we try and make architecture a better, more valuable experience for everyone?

unknown 14:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 14:28

I'm interested in this idea of flexibility, like flexible spaces. And I know that we have, I mean, at least one project. I'm sure we have a couple where we've spoken with our clients about flex space, particularly when it comes to vacation rentals and just how different types of people might use those spaces. So I'm curious if you have any examples, whether it's from our own projects or projects that you've seen that have done a really good job of that.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

Yeah, I love this question. It's also super difficult not only to answer, but think about how permanent architecture is. Like if you want a flexible space and you slap a wall in a bedroom to divide into two separate bedrooms, like you've got to think about like an operable wall. Operable partitions tend to be either more expensive or kind of ugly if you're going for a cheapy version. So our clients' hidden box, they have a bedroom in the upper floor that can either be like a large room or they have this beautiful partition wall that they selected, an operable partition wall, um, that would allow you to separate that bedroom into two spaces. So a lot of people coming to us wanting to do short-term rentals say flexibility as a keyword in terms of getting more people able to use and rent that space. Um I think that's where my mind goes for flexibility. But also if you look at like any building, it I think it is difficult to make architecture flexible because it's so permanent. Like if we think back to comparing it to a cell phone or a vehicle, think about how often those designs are updated. It's like every year there's a new model. Can you imagine if there was a new model for a building every year? Like that just doesn't happen. Um, but maybe it should, but it's just like a building is meant hopefully it is a long-lasting piece of the built environment. So, how can you make it flex flexible to last longer and accommodate the changing needs and demands of the greater population and make it inclusive for everyone? I think these are all struggles in architecture, but they're welcomed problem-solving exercises that is our job to try and think of and be one step ahead and plan for. I just I think it's super difficult to execute in a beautiful way sometimes.

SPEAKER_01 16:50

Jill, have you come across a challenge in which the team took and and created a solution around flexibility on a recent project at all? And I know that's really putting you on the spot, but it came to me just now thinking, I'm sure there's been some some like even with the hidden box with that flexible space, but was there something that, man, you guys were like, boy, this is going to be a tough one. But then all of a sudden, boom, um, the you know, the clouds parted and the answers came down and you were able to resolve a situation.

SPEAKER_03 17:23

Well, I mean, I think that we do plenty of problem solving on all of our projects, but I mean, in like in any of our short-term rental spaces, a lot of people are like, how do we maximize the bedroom counts? So I don't think it necessarily applies to just one project. Maybe I'm blanking right now on one standout, but I do think um we're constantly problem solving. And it's it's not just about the layout of the space, it's all of the logistics around getting the building built. Um even in our Florida project that we're going through right now, just getting containers there and and how many containers can we fit and how can we get it done on time? We're thinking about those types of problem solving efforts where it's like, well, if we do scenario A, then B can happen. But then how do you plan for scenario C, D, and E sometimes? So I think right now my mind is so focused on the the Concord Wolfhouse project in Florida. It's a multiplex, duplex space. Um and uh that one comes to mind because it's one that's that's currently under construction and we're working towards getting containers out there.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

And boy, did they have the smallest backyard for us to work in.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Yeah, talk about problem solving for the getting us things to fit.

unknown 18:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Exactly. And then the parking requirements. I mean, I thought, I mean, it was it was really, I can, I can, I can remember the the challenge in that. And and and and once I got once we got to the site on the field trip, holy smokes, I'm like, oh wow, this is really much smaller, even though and Claire, you were instrumental in them in that project because you made them go and take a video because we didn't know if we wanted to take them on as a project. Many videos.

SPEAKER_02 19:03

That's very helpful.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

It was well, we wanted to be good stewards. We didn't want to take a project for containers because they were really set on containers. If we didn't think we can get the containers into the backyard, and it had this little narrow driveway, we made them go measure it. Um, and it's not the containers are not going in through the through the driveway. I mean, we figured out another way, but yeah, it's those kind of challenges to meet it's not just in the house itself, but also the footprint that you have you guys have to work with as designers.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

Yeah, we had to have the structural engineer go back and reduce the the foundation footprint to meet the setback requirement for the existing house. We only had 10 feet, we didn't have like nine foot, nine and a quarter inches. So we had to go through and have them update the documents. So that's been fun. We did it.

SPEAKER_01 19:54

We did it.

SPEAKER_02 19:56

I love that this topic because I think it goes so well with our mission as a team and as a company and like what we're out here to do. We always say we're here to make good buildings for good people, and there's so many architects that will just slap something together. But what's fun for me to witness is you and Breck and Bryce and Jake and Marissa and everybody on the design team, like really taking care in the quality of your work and really taking care that in these designs, recognizing people are going to be using these spaces for a long time to come. And it's so fun to see the pride when those schematic design packages go out and like the excitement on the team. And I love because sometimes they go out, and then I'm like, oh, I gotta release this on socials, but I haven't seen it since I introduced the client to you guys in the first place. So it's so fun to go back and see, like, oh my gosh, this is where it ended up. This looks so amazing. And um, I really do feel that it's this commitment to making sure the people who are going to be using these spaces actually enjoy them that brings that to life.

SPEAKER_01 21:14

You guys all hit it the nail on the head. I mean, it's the commitment to quality, being good stewards. I mean, this is all value-based. Um, and you take all those values and you I see it in every project that comes out of this department. It's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 21:29

I love how much we're touching on our core values in this conversation because it just goes to show how near and dear this is to our hearts. And that right before we started this call, I was like, this is why I did my thesis because I so strongly believe in this, and then I'm so thankful to be in an office or the office that most of us are remote, but um in a space that encourages and places so much value on all of those things.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Jill, are there any clues? Thoughts that you'd like to leave people with on this topic or even creative ways that other architects can start to think about this, or developers who might be listening, just to plug this into their awareness as they're planning?

SPEAKER_03 22:16

I think I'd like to leave with a mic drop kind of statement and like maybe it's a question just to make people really think. But we touched on the topic of short-term rentals. So I'm thinking like, why do people feel the need to leave their homes and go to a short-term rental that's so beautifully designed in a beautiful space? It's got a spa, a sauna, a hot tub, and it's got like these beautiful materials so thoughtfully laid out and encourages people to just like feel cozy, like the hoogah. Um why can't that be something we exist in every day? Why can't that be something that people have in their home? Um, and I think a big part of it always comes back down to cost. And sometimes it ends up being cheaper to go and rent a beautiful space for a week or just a long weekend rather than, you know, redesigning your entire house and and going through an entire remodel or even moving into a better house. I think all of those things like the number one thing, it's so difficult with cost. And so, how can we start to incorporate those daily things and bring them into our lives so that despite whatever your home looks like, how do you get that hookah feeling? How do you get this cozy feeling and feel like happy and comfortable in a space that you inhabit so much of your life? I think it's so important. And I would love to challenge people, architects, general population to try and bring those aspects into your life to just get more out of your built environment.

SPEAKER_02 23:47

I love that so much, Jill. And also, what a good reminder for all of our short-term rental developers listening for why these are so popular and why this industry only continues to grow because people do love that experience and they do love to be to be in that space that feels enjoyable. So, all the more reminder for people who are interested in that route that it's really a great way to go.

SPEAKER_01 24:15

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

Fantastic.

SPEAKER_01 24:17

Wow, that was a mic drop, Jill. Well done.

SPEAKER_03 24:20

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

We're so grateful for you coming on for this episode here. And um, for anybody who is listening and you want to get in touch with our team or take a look through our project portfolio, we will have all those links down below. And we also, by the time of this podcast release, we're going to have actually a case study on vacation rentals. So if you want to go down and take a look at that, we are highlighting the hookah, which we referenced at the beginning of this episode within that case study um guide. So go ahead and click that down below. You can have access to that via your email. And if you also would like to connect with our team, we've got a link for that as well. You can book a call and we'll help you get started in the right direction here. Right on.

SPEAKER_00 25:12

Thank you guys so much.

SPEAKER_02 25:14

Thank you, everybody. We'll see you in the next one. Yay. Bye bye. We hope you enjoyed this episode. And if you found it so valuable, you want to connect with us one on one, click the link in the description to tell us all about your project so we can help you get started.